The chassis of my PBP is great (brittle plastic notwithstanding)! That's the last thing I want to replace in the device.
We have needed a "Jeep of Laptops" for a while, maybe someone needs to spec out a fully open source design that any manufacturer can target.
I'm not sure if this counts in your book, but releasing all this stuff is closer than anyone else is to that dream.
To me, that's far from not caring about the software. Especially when you compare to other vendors like Pine.
What I probably should have said is that System76 takes open software ridiculously seriously in the same way that Framework takes open hardware ridiculously seriously. On the scale of Linux laptops, Framework is on par with Dell and Lenovo (the best of the big OEMs) in terms of upstreaming patches etc.
System76 OTOH is completely crazy. They've put Coreboot on their laptops, built their own DE because they got tired of Ubuntu not shipping proper nvidia drivers, etc.
I could transplant the desktop model I got into my original framework, but I haven’t attempted it.
https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-ai-pc-risc-v...
Framework: "Let us show you how it is done!"
Also, a very different approach to GPU.
I wish someone made a keyboard that doesn’t suck, ideally split as well.
Although to be pedantic, that's not an "ortholinear" keyboard (as in a square grid) rather a keyboard with column stagger (which you should use).
I wonder if you could make it for a FW13 too? I know QMK doesn't work for 13.
Edit: I see now that it uses a separate microcontroller, so yes if you could make it fit then it should work.
I don't know how to link to it directly, but midway down this article there's a picture and some more links of an MNT Reform (apparently completely home-built) with a very cool, "thumb-centric", column staggered ergo keyboard:
https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-07-01-july-update.htm...
(search for "More great mods from the community..." heading if interested)
I would very much like to have a keyboard like either of those on my laptop. The stares you'd get when in public!!
A big part of the core functionality of a laptop, as opposed to a PC, is is that of a typewriter:
* Notes in class
* Minutes in a meeting
* Entries in a journal or travelogue
* Writing the next great novel
etc.
Why have manufacturers simply taken that away from us, in favor of a terrible excuse with ridiculous tactile feedback?
I don’t like row stagger and non-split keyboards, for ergonomic reasons. That’s definitely a niche preference, but if anyone would cater to it you’d expect it to be Framework or similar.
https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
but not one decent keyboard. Why?
(Answer: it's basically just keyboard covers, and the many options are due to variations of colors and languages. But I would take a hot pink / toxic green keyboard with ancient tibetan labels if the keys were non-chicklet, with decent travel, sizes, and feedback. 7 rows if possible.)
⇒ their market likely isn’t enormous, but it is larger than that of Framework Laptop owners.
https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case https://frame.work/products/framework-laptop-13-mainboard-ho... https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13
etc., lots of designs available.
Looks like this would be an easy entry point to a DIY Steam Machine that takes up ~no space under your TV.
This SoC may actually have Linux drivers.
Anyway, I've been using it on my Macbook Air M2 and it works fine for my use case [3]. Pretty smooth.
[1] https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
[3] https://daniel.lawrence.lu/blog/2024-12-01-asahi-linux-with-...
:(
The one feature that only works properly when using both Apple hardware and software...
Can't seem to get DP Alt Mode to work on my used 2021 M1 Pro though, even though it's listed as supported with an asterisk, maybe someone here has managed it?
(Also, if you're buying used and wiping MacOS are you truly giving Apple a dime? I guess it's a matter of perspective.)
But as much as I love the RK3588 it's very much in the "low perf utility SBC" world than "good performing general PC". I use my two boards for NAS, Plex, Forgejo CI builders, etc.
I do recall that Jeff Geerling I think had some followup with that board that perhaps there could be firmware changes that improve the power efficiency later maybe?
It is very usable for email, editing documents, code review, etc - but it will struggle if you're trying to multitask heavily.
This CIX SoC is a fair bit faster than the RK3588 though I believe.
What's wrong with Asahi?
Generally I'm reluctant investing in Linux on a hardware from company more or less hostile to it, but I also don't have any need for ARM laptop, and I'm happy with my Framework.
I wouldn't say the problem is hostility. It's complete non-interest. Apple wisely allowed us to load a non-chain-of-trust OS while maintaining the chain of trust in macOS, which is an incredible advancement still unmatched by other manufacturers.
And that's it. They have done zero work to accommodate Linux. At all. Perhaps if Microsoft ever figures out that NT used to run on more than one arch, Apple will revive Boot Camp for Windows and deem it useful to include Linux this time?
If Apple wanted to, they could already do that right now. Windows runs on arm just fine. Heck, windows on Arm in a parallels VM runs better on my macbook pro than it does natively on an x86 laptop.
If Apple would make some drivers, even just for Windows, I bet they'd sell more macs. But it would seem Apple either calculated that ecosystem/services lock-in is way more important to them than a potential boost in hardware sales for alternative OSes, or they are really reluctant to make drivers for Apple Silicon available elsewhere out of fear it'll expose some trade secrets, which they didn't have to worry about when they used intel.
The incremental bump in sales would be very small.
Even when Apple did provide bootcamp drivers to run Windows on old laptops, very few people used it as their daily driver for a Windows computer. I'm sure Apple has a better estimate of the market for people who bought Macs to use with alternative OSes back when they supported it, but they've calculated that it's not worth the effort.
I'd advise buying a MacBook air m1 over an m2 if the goal is to run Linux...
...all the missing support?
Ooof. I feel like power efficiency would be the main reason I'd take the plunge and switch from x86_64 to arm64, given that there would be difficulties and trade offs software-wise to do so.
My 13th-gen Intel board in my Framework 13 sits at around 11W semi-idle (Firefox constantly burning 35% of one core for reasons that are my fault). And this is with Linux, where power management isn't always the best.
Regardless, I'm happy to see something like this. It might not be something I want today, but it's a step in the right direction.
Cheap Windows Arm laptops are flooding the market, if someone can pick ONE laptop to support they could easily buy them on sale , refurbished them with Linux and make a profit.
Looks likes their are some challenges with doing this.
Now we just need to be as good as (or better than) Apple's Rosetta.
[1] https://www.xda-developers.com/arm-translation-layer-steam-f...
Valve is pushing mostly open source to expand to other platforms which is a win win for everybody.
Thousands of game studios are gone now, and supporting their software is important legacy work. You don't have to appreciate that, but I do. I do not give the faintest fuck about the opportunity cost you bemoan towards native UNIX games when I do this. That's your problem, not mine.
I have faith!
I was also slowly loosing hope, although I do still run some NixOS ARM Raspberry PIs. But with the recent Valve backing, I'm back on the train again, and eagerly awaiting the slow but steady improvements, and figuring out where I can contribute back.
Integration, testing, and support are all expensive. Right or wrong, that's a reason why if a laptop "just works" (like a Mac, Windows Thinkpad, or a Chromebook), it probably has proprietary binaries.
Also, if you aren't paying for the OS (via the hardware it's coupled with), you can't expect the OS to have the benefits of tight hardware integration.
Even Framework laptops use proprietary boot firmware, and they've been pretty clear that they only provide support for Ubuntu and Fedora, not the alphabet soup of other Linux desktop distros.
Can we please move on to microkernels already? I'm fine with a tiny performance hit, I just don't want to get rooted because I plugged in the wrong USB stick.
On the other hand, if you're not running Wine, you can't get autorun virii from USB drives, plus the Windows virii just lives there and can't do anything.
Plan9 is like writing. You either do it, or talk about doing it. I'm talking not doing btw. I tried, but I got stuck on trivial things and the barrier to asking for help over 2+2= is high. (No offence intended. The 9 heads aren't interested in running a kindergarden)
To do that on a MacBook I'm spending a minimum of 3200$.
If you have unlimited money ( or can expense it) a 3200$ to 4k MacBook is going to be the best experience money can buy.
If you have limited funds, a 200$ used computer can get the job done with the right distro.
> makes your laptop slower
Hmm...
How about UEFI vs arm-specific bootloaders?
I tried arm32 Linux a few years back, and the largest hindrance at the time was the device trees and non-UEFI boot process. Given up on exploring the platform further (except maybe for SBC like raspberry pi) until that situation improves.
The upstream story due to this is kind of a mixed bag, though. I think they also still use out-of-tree NPU drivers, etc. Device trees and other updates are still flowing upstream. I think the next Mesa release will support the Immortalis GPU series though, so that'll hopefully polish off a big remaining problem with ordinary distros.
The high idle power on the Framework ARM upgrade board shouldn’t be blamed solely on MetaComputing or CIX. Poor idle power efficiency is a long-standing issue on Linux laptops, especially with new platforms, so this looks more like an ecosystem-level power-management problem than a single-vendor failure.
What stands out to me is that Chinese companies are actually shipping hardware and pushing into every possible market segment. Their decentralized, diversified corporate ecosystem seems to enable fast experimentation and broad market penetration.
i posted the article instead because it has some details that aren't on the listing.
That’s a strange revision of fairly recent history. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, Apple’s the one that proved out laptop ARM at scale.
Also, it's not what you're asking, but self-hosted runners are a security nightmare if you don't have the hardware to completely isolate them from your local network.
[1] https://github.com/actions/partner-runner-images/blob/main/i...
Save you a click or two. Looking at this I have so many questions. Am I buying a mainboard? It is not clear. It lists ports: it only supports 2 ports? You have four options with 16/32gigs and 1tb of storage? Is the storage soldiered? If so, what is the storage? emmc? Soldiered memory seems to be a given in the ARM ecosystem, but the storage is completely unacceptable on a framework mainboard.
The only difference between the pro and the regular is that the second port is a usb-c over an hdmi? I am assuming this is the mainboard even supporting framework extension cards.
No listed Linux compatibility support. Forget if the NPU even works in Linux; I do not even know if this will boot Linux because the company did not bother to submit devicetree patches to the kernel for their SOC. No listed Windows support even.
This company's copy is absolutely terrible.
I use business software everyday that doesn’t support ARM, because of it’s licensing system doesn’t work on ARM processors.
Instead of fixing it, the company just sells cloud hosted windows licenses for $100 per user.
Also worth looking at battery life compared to performance...
https://kickingandstreaming.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/x2...
EDIT: Sorry, not SnapdragonX - apparently I can't read.
Also, who is "MetaComputing" and can I trust them with my money? Something about the big "Web 3 Integrated Devices" branding on their landing page makes me less than enthusiastic. Otherwise I'd be hovering over 'buy'
There's no guarantee any company lasts forever. What's the point in not using something now because it might be gone in the future?
But that's just the worst case.
